Archive of Our Own

[00:00] Minghao: Huānyíng huílái! You're listening to Side by Side with Minghao. It's my honor to announce that my guests today are Seungkwan, Seokmin, and Soonyoung, better known as BooSeokSoon. Here on Side by Side we have real one-time sessions and real conversations about what being side by side with your loved one looks like in practice. All voices you will hear have given me their explicit permission to release this episode. This is a special one and you will notice my session today is shorter than my typical ones. Without revealing too much yet, I want to make this fact clear: all three women have individually signed off on being featured today, unfiltered.

When a couple reaches out to me to be featured on this podcast, there is usually one half bringing the other along in an effort to be understood. To be seen. My session with BSS was unique. They are not only a polyamorous triad, they all willingly wanted to come talk to me together. Even when we love deeply, sometimes there is misalignment and misunderstanding. Where I hope to meet them is in the middle, side by side.

[01:35] Seungkwan: Aigoo… I know we asked for this. I don't know if this is the right time.

[01:43] Minghao: How so?

[01:44] Seungkwan: It's been ah, difficult between us lately. More than usual.

[01:57] Minghao: It sounds to me like this is exactly the right time. What's going on?

[02:12] Soonyoung: (sighs) First to speak up, first to back down. Fine, I'll say it because I know you. It's been a little tense between all of us since our recent trip in Bali and now Seungkwannie is stressing even more about the right thing to say, the right way to appear…

[02:35] Seungkwan: (cuts in) That is not it. That isn't anywhere close to my problem but now you're the one making me look worse. Actually, this is exactly what I was afraid of. You always do this—

[02:45] Minghao: (cuts in) Okay. Let's take a pause and breathe all together for a second. Soonyoung, I want to go back to what you said. Because I know you. It's a profound phrase, isn't it? On one hand, it's no small thing to feel like you deeply know another person and on the other, it can mean assumptions. Seungkwan, try not to think about what she's always done in the past. Focus on right now and this moment. What bothered you about what Soonyoung said?

[03:25] Seungkwan: I'm not bothered…

[03:28] Soonyoung: Yeah right.

[03:30] Seungkwan: I'm not! I'm hurt that's how you see me as!

[03:35] Soonyoung: I didn't mean it in a bad way. You do get self-conscious, that's the truth.

[03:40] Seokmin: Oh my god. See this? You're right, Minghao. This is exactly the right time. We all signed up for this because we knew something had to change. I'm always in the middle of this. That's how it's been since the start.

[04:00] Minghao: You sound tired.

[04:02] Seokmin: Because I am. Being the third girlfriend feels a lot like being the peacemaker most of the time. The Bali trip was supposed to be a wellness retreat but it felt like the opposite.

[04:18] Minghao: Healthy and open communication is a non-negotiable in a relationship. It's even more critical in a polyamorous one. Have you said this is how you felt to Soonyoung and Seungkwan directly?

[04:33] Seokmin: Yes. It hasn't changed anything.

[04:36] Seungkwan: That's why we're here. I see it and want to be a better girlfriend to both Soonyoung and Seokmin but I don't know how to fix it alone. Maybe this is the start.

[04:51] Soonyoung: She's right. Me and Kwannie have our patterns but that leaves Seokmin in a weird place.

[05:00] Minghao: Good, that's good to recognize you all have a shared goal here. If I had all the time in the world, we'd start from the beginning of Seungkwan and Soonyoung's relationship first but we don't. Seokmin said this is how it's been since the beginning. How about we start with all of you sharing your thought process when you were first coming into this new relationship together?

[05:29] Seungkwan: Can I confess something about that? If we're being honest?

[05:37] Minghao: Yes, communication and transparency are two sides of the same coin. I want to challenge all of you to be as honest as possible here.

[05:53] Seungkwan: When Soonyoung first said she was curious about non-monogamy, I had a weird feeling about it. Not about exploring a poly relationship exactly… I don't know I was in my head about it and felt insecure about not being good enough for Soonyoung. But then we randomly met Seokmin one night out and it felt so natural right away that I got over it quickly. We all clicked immediately. It felt like fate.

[06:24] Seokmin: (laughs) I mean, it's not like Soonyoung didn't know I used to be at that bar almost every Friday. I'll take half-fate.

[06:33] Seungkwan: Eh? We all met for the first time that night.

[06:40] Seokmin: No we didn't I met—oh. Oh. Ah. She didn't tell you. Soonyoung?

Pause.

[07:00] Seungkwan: Yah! Soonyoung what does she mean by that?

[07:05] Minghao: I'm hearing there's been some withholding. There's a couple things Seungkwan said that I want to come back to in a minute, but what's going on here, I wonder?

[07:19] Seokmin: Do you want to tell her or me?

[07:24] Seungkwan: Tell me what?

Pause.

[07:36] Minghao: Soonyoung, you have the hot seat right now. I'm hearing that Seokmin knows what this could be about but this has to come from you. It's up to your discretion if you want to share now or later but I want to explain the benefits of disclosing outweighs any consequences, all of the time. Even when there is a rupture, when you are on even ground there can be repair.

[08:02] Soonyoung: (sighs) My thought process when I was first coming into this new relationship was… I met Seokmin at the bar before and wanted to get to know her more. I didn't cheat.

[08:23] Seungkwan: No you did the next best thing and lied by telling me you were just curious.

[08:30] Soonyoung: That's not a lie. I was!

[08:35] Seungkwan: Curiosity isn't leading your girlfriend to the girl you wanted to get to know more. I thought you and I just met her that night!

[08:50] Minghao: I'm hearing how this new information has significant impact. Soonyoung, what had you withholding this information?

[09:02] Soonyoung: I didn't think it was important.

[09:06] Seungkwan: Bullshit.

[09:07] Soonyoung: It's really not. You love Seokmin too, isn't that what matters the most?

[09:17] Seungkwan: If it wasn't important then why didn't you tell me you already knew her?

[09:22] Soonyoung: How does that make a difference?

[09:25] Seungkwan: It makes all the difference! I wasn't born yesterday. You already knew what you were getting out of this by asking me to try opening the relationship. What? Did you suggest this because of her?

Pause.

Oh my god you did, didn't you?

[09:50] Minghao: Seungkwan, this is hitting at the part of you that was insecure.

[09:56] Seungkwan: Yes.

[09:59] Minghao: Say more.

[10:00] Seungkwan: This is bringing up those old feelings. How am I enough for her if Seokmin was already on her mind?

[10:12] Minghao: Soonyoung, if you can recall, what were your motivations back then?

[10:24] Soonyoung: I didn't want to worry you like this, jagiya. Okay, I admit Seokmin was in the back of my mind but I was already curious because of our friends. They are also a poly couple.

[10:48] Minghao: How do you feel about this response, Seungkwan?

[10:57] Seungkwan: I feel like…

[10:58] Minghao: I want us all to try something. Instead of I feel like statements, try to keep it to I feel. When we're more specific about our emotions, we can more easily pinpoint the trigger.

[11:18] Seungkwan: I feel confused. Hurt. Distrustful.

[11:30] Minghao: And Soonyoung? What's coming up for you?

[11:37] Soonyoung: I feel shame. A little frustration.

[11:45] Minghao: Where do you think the frustration comes from?

[11:54] Soonyoung: I don't know why this is the hill she wants to die on. Seokmin is here now and I would argue you two are even closer than with me.

[12:08] Minghao: Every poly relationship is different. Sometimes having a primary or secondary partner is the way to do it but it sounds like you're realizing you don't like that. Do you think there could be jealousy there?

[12:20] Soonyoung: I know there is. This isn't news to Seungkwan. Her response when I brought it up had me feeling more alone.

[12:29] Minghao: Mm and what was that?

[12:32] Soonyoung: We had a fight about it. I remember her exact words. Your jealousy is your problem. This is what you wanted. Even if that's the case that didn't stop her from… I don't know. It felt like she was purposefully trying to make me more jealous after that.

[12:50] Minghao: Were you, Seungkwan?

[12:54] Seungkwan: Sometimes.

[13:09] Minghao: Seokmin, I didn't forget about you. Do you want to share how all of this feels for you?

[13:18] Seokmin: I feel resigned.

[13:25] Minghao: In what way?

[13:32] Seokmin: I didn't know Soonyoung was keeping that from Seungkwan and I don't know if it really matters anymore in the grand scheme. Both of them fighting over me like this… I don't know if I want the way things are right now.

[13:45] Minghao: Let's zoom out for a moment. Walk me through your thoughts and feelings while you were coming into this relationship with them.

[14:00] Seokmin: It was exciting and fun to feel wanted by two people. I didn't go into it expecting anything, until it got serious. I had no idea who they were or that they were publicly known as this duo. I was okay with being a secondary at first and being known as that.

[14:20] Minghao: I'm hearing you speak in past tense. Do you think that's changed?

[14:28] Seokmin: I can't compete with their history. It feels awful.

[14:32] Minghao: I can imagine, given everything you've been saying. Do they know that?

[14:40] Seokmin: No.

[14:44] Minghao: If you both had one word to describe how you feel, hearing this from Seokmin for the first time, what would you say?

[14:56] Soonyoung: Guilty.

[14:57] Seungkwan: Sad.

[14:59] Minghao: Seokmin, what does this response mean to you?

[15:10] Seokmin: I don't know. Would it be bad if I said nothing?

[15:16] Minghao: No. Thank you for your honesty. Before we continue, does anyone have a lingering thought you want to share?

[15:26] Seokmin: Can I ask a question?

[15:28] Minghao: Go ahead.

[15:35] Seokmin: What if I realized our goals aren't the same anymore?

[15:40] Minghao: What do you mean by that?

[15:50] Seokmin: I mean… I don't know if I can do this anymore. (sniffles)

[15:58] Seungkwan: You want to break up with us?

[16:02] Seokmin: No… I don't want to break up with you but. I want to break up with you.

[16:12] Soonyoung: Ha. I'm sure.

[16:15] Seungkwan: Wait, hold on a second

[16:17] Seokmin: (cuts in) I hate to do this but I don't know if I can look at you in the same way anymore, Soonyoung. I didn't know you left Seungkwan in the dark about how we first met and that's really shitty even if you pretend your intentions were pure.

[16:29] Soonyoung: What the fuck? I'm not pretending.

[16:32] Seokmin: Ani, ani, mianhae. I don't believe you. Seungkwan-ah, I want to be with you but not if Soonyoung is in the picture.

[16:40] Minghao: Okay okay, time out! It sounds like you've all been through a lot and Seokmin, it's understandable why you're considering separation entirely. I'm not here to judge or say one decision is better than the other. That decision is up to all three of you. What I am here for is to help you come to a conclusion on the best path forward.

[17:10] Seokmin: Well, I don't need any help. My path forward is alone or with Seungkwan.

[17:16] Seungkwan: What?

[17:16] Soonyoung: Seriously? Seokmin-ah…

[17:18] Seokmin: I'm sorry, Seungkwan-ah. I know this isn't fair and I don't blame you either way, but it's either her or me.

[17:28] Soonyoung: Seungkwan… jagiya… please…

[17:34] Seungkwan: I don't know if I can look at you the same way either.

[17:42] Soonyoung: Seungkwan-ah! You're really going to throw all of these years away, our channel, our everything because of her?

[18:00] Seungkwan: (sniffles) It wouldn't be because of her. It's because of you. The fact that you can't understand why I have a problem with you not being honest about how you and Seokmin met shows me you really don't know me like you think you do. I'm done. I'm really done this time.

[18:32] Soonyoung: So this is it then? This is how it ends.

A pause, more sniffling, the sound of shuffling fabric.

Fine. Xu seonsaengnim, kamsahamnida. What better way is there to announce our breakup than this? I'm out. Fuck you both very much!

The sound of footsteps walking away and the sound of Seungkwan and Seokmin sniffling continues. Minghao gives them time.

[19:30] Minghao: That was difficult. (She takes a deep breath in and out.) It is okay to feel however you feel right now. I anticipated fourty more minutes together but I want to acknowledge this intense and unexpected change. We can continue with the full allotted time or we can wrap up in ten, whichever you both prefer.

[19:52] Seungkwan: There's so much to sort out now. Can we wrap sooner?

[19:58] Seokmin: I would like that.

[20:00] Minghao: Sounds like a plan. Do we want to take a few minutes to try a brief breathing exercise or meditation? Okay. I am going to walk you through it. Listeners, you are more than welcome to follow along. We'll start with getting into a comfortable position. You can either stay seated where you are with your feet planted on the floor or sit down. You may choose to close your eyes or soften your gaze. Do what feels more comfortable to you. Now, notice your natural breath, how your chest rises… and falls. We don't want to change it just yet. Simply notice it. If thoughts pass by your mind or if your thoughts keep returning to a memory or worry, we will not fight it. Like your breath, notice it, acknowledge it, and slowly return your focus to your breath. Now we're going to breathe deep in our abdomen. (She demonstrates.) Good.

They continue the brief meditation for a couple minutes.

Slowly, when you're ready, we can return to this present moment. I want to check in with how you are both feeling.

[25:00] Seokmin: I feel grateful but worried. I know this was the choice I had to make for me. I guess I don't want Seungkwan to feel tied to me if she doesn't want to be.

[25:16] Seungkwan: I feel hopeful. I made my choice as well. Soonyoung and I… we've done this before. Many times, but this time it really feels over. I don't know how I could trust her again. That was a wakeup call, I think.

[25:35] Minghao: That's a big thing to recognize, Seungkwan. You don't need me to tell you that trust is the foundation of a relationship but it bears repeating. When trust isn't there, the foundation is fraught and fragile.

[25:50] Seungkwan: You're right and I think I haven't trusted Soonyoung in a while, with me thinking I wasn't enough for her.

[26:01] Minghao: Does this concern come up between you and Seokmin?

[26:09] Seungkwan: No, never, which is why I'm hopeful.

[26:18] Minghao: And Seokmin, the concerns you had about not being able to compete with their history. How do you think about that now?

[26:30] Seokmin: I said I won't ever be able to erase their history but I think I can make peace with it. I feel better knowing Seungkwan and I have this conversation with you to think back on.

[26:50] Minghao: Good. Our session is coming to a close. Seungkwan, Seokmin, thank you for being present and vulnerable with me today. While our time together will be over soon, I encourage you to seek professional resources elsewhere as you see fit. I hope that now you're able to move forward together, side by side.