Is the title of this chapter a reference to the Chromatics song? Which in turn references Kurt Cobain’s suicide note? Which is then part of the title to that Neil Young song? OR AM I JUST TOO OBSESSED WITH META? Yes, yes, and yes, you’re not crazy.
but YIKES the abandonment parallels with Archie as well (jesus Archie is like the most oblivious character ever, but he’s always been like wilfully stupid and it’s like GET SOME SELF REFLECTION UP IN THAT MOTHBALL BRAIN YOU DIPSHIT. Phew anyway…) Luckily Fred is there to fill in some of the gaps later when Archie sucks at self-awareness.
// In his opinion, Mr. Hand and Spicoli were the only real characters in the whole movie.// This fascinates me! Is it because he was forced to reflect and think about personal growth and responsibility through this character??? Yes, very much because most everyone else went back to their ridiculous oblivious antics. No one really learned anything.
Also that scene in the bathroom with Jason (omg Jason SUCKS SO MUCH) and the humiliation – this was so excellent and it hurt to read, but in a good way. Jason is NOT good in this at all. Like your Viper Radio, he (regrettably) speaks as well.
I ALWAYS love your Diltons? ngl, he’s my favorite supporting character because he’s just great foil for Jughead, or strange comic relief. I’m happy you like him 😊
FP sucks – I love the way you’ve characterised him here as callous and justifying his behaviour through the guise of protection – like father like son here I guess? That knife scene was incredible and took my breath away. There is a lot more going on with Jughead, and it was something I disliked about season two. His transition into the Serpents, rushed and overwrought. Based on season one Jug, I imagined he would do everything he could to stay out of it, even though you would see these inklings that he might not be able to, in his characterization, his relationship with his father (who I made dreadful awful here). Ugh, that might give too much away, oh well.
does Jughead initially prevent Dark Betty or does he embolden her??? One of the never-ending questions in this story, but the answer gets pieced together in time.
How much does she sense and manipulate out of him… I’m curious what you will think in the end, whether either Jughead or Betty manipulated each other at all. In the next chapter, you can see Betty trying, and it will come up even later at about chapter 11(?). Can there be a fine line between protecting and manipulating someone? Same with lying, by omission or outright.
// “We’re both gentle people by nature, Betty, I think. It’s the world that disappoints us, twists us, makes us react in ways that are unhealthy for us. We do this to ourselves so we don’t do it to others.”// DAMN HAL I MEAN I LOVE THIS BECAUSE IT IS SO FUCKED UPPPP Another thing I intensely disliked about season two was how weak the Hal as Black Hood storyline was. my kidney for more of these foreshadowing moments between them, but then it’s riverdale. temper your expectations, yet the ground is soft, and I will dig.
Thanks for making me think and taking the time to write such wonderful comments :D <3 <3 <3
Okay this is me, swinging past on the re-read, back again to say I still love the scene with Jason in the bathroom, and the ice cube sex was amazing, especially with Betty trying to out vibrate the phone noise (lolololol).
Dilton is amazing and I can tell you love him - I just recalled the phrase you used in a previous chapter "half-assed delinquent" or sthng similar, but anyway I loved power play with her sweater etc.
Mmm I feel like I am simultaneously reading into everything too much and not enough - The Zelda reference from the Great Gatsby? Your comment about Jughead and his moving away from the serpents and I think that, he's so desperate not to become his father that he might on some level? He's not self aware enough to draw boundaries and he also knows it... But yes, the "the more things change the more things stay the same" always gets me in my existential feels.
As I said to you this comment made me think a lot about the nature of comparing oneself to a predator (as Betty does earlier in this chapter in her dr glass session) but also what it means to manipulate or be manipulated. Manipulation is in every human interaction, but does that mean it's malicious? I don't think so. I think the connotations of the word manipulation are negative, but that does not mean the overall action is (but again, there are several reference points: the manipulator, the manipulatee and "general society" whose rules dictate good and evil by law from an aggregate, not an individualistic stand point). I think the worst kind of manipulation occurs more around asymmetries of power: when someone with more intelligence, age, knowledge etcetera tries to coerce someone else with less. So maybe this is more about coercion? Dying for your thoughts as always haha. But this is obviously a small fragment of what manipulation is - and I think this story illustrates many different types of manipulation, but not all of this kind. Do I think that Jughead manipulated Betty? The power imbalance between them is his knowledge of her from the stalking. So far, it seems like it's in his head because there involves a lack of coercion.
On another note, I love you developing the black hood storyline and putting in all these innocuous father daughter moments, which just creep me out in the best of ways.
//and Betty begins to feel like she is under a microscope, like she and Jughead are two birds in the wild whose every move is carefully scrutinized by a gang of willful biologists, that all these signs are just their own self-fulfilling prophecies and not a natural progression towards something substantial, something real.// Also, I love this twitcher line <3
THANK YOU for making me think and responding to me! It reminded me how long it's been since I've commented on this story and so I had to re-read from the top. And I go on...
So much food for thought! Do I think Jughead manipulates Betty? In some ways, sure, but I think he goes out of his way to be nothing more than a passive observer. Maybe it's because he's worried his influence will hurt her. There is a power imbalance with his stalking, but in his head, and I think I've mentioned this before, but Jughead doesn't think he counts. His reasoning (which I'm curious if you think it is logical or not, or even understandable from his POV) comes out in chapters 11-14. Thanks for engaging so much; it still surprises me in the best way 🥰
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meditationonbaaal on Chapter 3 Wed 17 Feb 2021 01:31PM UTC
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Lucivar on Chapter 3 Mon 22 Feb 2021 09:35PM UTC
Last Edited Mon 22 Feb 2021 09:37PM UTC
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meditationonbaaal on Chapter 3 Sat 11 Sep 2021 03:00PM UTC
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